Swedentzerland?

Summary:

Last minute workgroup expansions and Mr. Thomann declares "We decided: Switzerland recommends to recognise Open XML ***from Microsoft*** as an international Standard". But..

Swedentzerland?

podmokle 29 Aug 2007 19:24

Unbelievable are the occurencies in Portugal, Norway, Sweden and so on. And Switzerland? Here Mr. Thomann announced victory for the Yes-Men.

Am Anfang hatte das ooxml-Komitee etwa zwanzig Mitglieder, als es um die Abstimmung ging, waren es plötzlich über fünfzig. Offensichtlich hatte Microsoft noch kurz vor der Abstimmung Leute ins Komitee geschickt. — In the beginnign the OOXML committee had 20 members but at voting time suddenly they expanded to 50. Apparently Microsoft sent people into Committee prior to the vote.

Wie heiss das Geschäft ist, offenbarte sich am Dienstagnachmittag. Kurz nachdem die WOZ mit Thomann gesprochen hatte, erhielt die Redaktion ein internes SNV-Schreiben, in dem es hiess, die Abstimmung sei annulliert und werde wiederholt. Thomann, der Vorsitzende des ExpertInnenkomitees, wurde faktisch entmachtet. — How hot business gets, was demonstrated Thuesday afternoon. shortly after the WOZ talked with Thomann, the editors received an internal SNV-letter, which stated that the voting procedure was annulled and will get repeated. Thoman, the president of the expert group was factually disengaged.

Susan Boos, 6000 pages of power, WOZ 30.8.207
http://www.woz.ch/artikel/inhalt/2007/nr35/Schweiz/15329.html

SIUG complaint (14 August)
http://siug.ch/ms-ooxml/appeal

Thomann Consulting
http://www.thomannconsulting.ch/public/aboutus/index-de.htm

Re: Swedentzerland?

stegu 29 Aug 2007 20:52

So, Thomann was disengaged and the vote was nullified. That's certainly good to hear, but there are still 30 or more newly added Microsoft partners in the committee. I guess the most likely outcome is that Switzerland will send a toothless "yes with comments"? I am not sure that helps the case of getting the standard improved, as each "yes" vote counts in favor of adoption, while each "abstain" vote actually makes each "no with comments" have a greater impact, because the number of counted votes decrease. 25% of the total votes need to be "no" to have a ballot resolution meeting, or 1/3 of the P-members need to vote "no". Is anybody from FFII keeping count? I have lost track of this, but I bet Microsoft is keeping a very close count indeed, and I have a feeling those who want to see a ballot resolution process are losing big.

From the report I assume that there is some governing body (board, main committee, whatever) in the Swiss standards body that can disengage chairs and nullify votes of technical working groups. Is there also a possibility to declare a working group demonstrably incompetent and/or paralyzed by internal conflicts, and instead make the decision at the higher level, the level that disengaged Thomann? As standards bodies are neither fully democratic nor exactly the same all over the world, but each one is governed by its own rules, it seems likely that there would be some safe-catches built into those rules in some countries.

If there is any possibility to dismiss an entire working group, this would be the proper time to seriously consider that option.

Last edited on 29 Aug 2007 21:01 by stegu Show more

Re: Swedentzerland?

Anonymous (85.1.13.x) 30 Aug 2007 08:35

The re-vote is just a "damage control" step taken by SNV after having gotten legal advice. However maybe some of the parties who participate only because of Microsoft's say-so might follow SNV's example and also get legal advice and because of what their lawyers say decide that it would be better to avoid participating in the vote in an illegal manner. If that happens, the result of the re-vote could differ from the result of the first vote.

Re: Swedentzerland?

Anonymous (59.182.187.x) 29 Aug 2007 20:32

How about adding India's NO on the news page ? http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/Software/India_throws_Microsoft_open_format_out_of_the_window/articleshow/2305780.cms

Re: Swedentzerland?

Anonymous (59.182.187.x) 29 Aug 2007 20:34

I'm very sorry, I noticed it's already done .. Sorry ! :)

Re: Swedentzerland?

Anonymous (90.17.14.x) 30 Aug 2007 01:45

Yes it's done, but in New Zealand there's somes interesting news : they cast NO on Open XML vote http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=7322

Re: Swedentzerland?

Anonymous (62.58.36.x) 30 Aug 2007 12:26

Why is it that disapproval votes always have unknown (hidden?)attendance/ballots whilst approval votes go accompanied lists of individual ballots ?

Re: Swedentzerland?

stegu 31 Aug 2007 16:29

I'm sure that is an IBM conspiracy. You should talk to the press about that. IBM may be rigging the vote behind closed doors. Microsoft is at least rigging the votes right out in the open.

(Sorry about the rant, nothing personal, it's an aftermath of my reaction to Doug Mahugh's broad and blunt accusations earlier today.)

Seriously, the lists of group members (at the organization level, not the individuals) are often publicly available, even though who voted what is sometimes kept confidential. Publishing the list of "no" voters does not make much sense in the context of exposing foul play for the actual purpose of this web site ("no-ooxml"), and people posting here obviously don't bother to include those lists. If you want to dig out those lists of members and publish them here or anywhere else, nobody would stop you, and who knows, you just might find something rotten there too. But, as you must have noticed, the purpose of this web site is to oppose OOXML. It makes no attempt at even pretending to be impartial or to criticize both sides evenly in the issue at hand. My opinion (so far) is that one side deserves a lot more criticism than the other side, that's why I am an active contributor here. So, this is not a place where people will always try to expose any foul play which might be behind a "no" vote. "No" votes are simply considered a win, and we think that result is a natural and logical outcome of a fair vote on the technical merits of OOXML. The interesting part of a "no" vote in this context is the list of comments, not the list of voters.

If you think there is a need to expose any foul play you suspect in "no" votes, you can either do so yourself or encourage others to come here and balance the view a bit. Posts here are not censored or moderated. Please make sure to point to anything that seems fishy, I'm sure nobody here would want to remain unaware of foul play from "our" side.

(And just to reduce the risk of Doug Mahugh shouting "conspiracy!": with "our" side I am referring to "those who do not wish to see OOXML being accepted as an ISO standard in its current form, for whatever reasons they may have", not "the side controlled by IBM".)

Last edited on 31 Aug 2007 16:32 by stegu Show more